Legislature(2007 - 2008)BARNES 124

03/28/2007 08:30 AM House FISHERIES


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08:41:00 AM Start
08:41:09 AM HB189
09:29:05 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 189 MGMT OF SUSTAINABLE SALMON FISHERIES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                                                            
                         March 28, 2007                                                                                         
                           8:41 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Paul Seaton, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Kyle Johansen                                                                                                    
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux                                                                                                 
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Bryce Edgmon                                                                                                     
Representative Lindsey Holmes                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 189                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the policy for management of sustainable                                                                    
salmon fisheries."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 189                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: MGMT OF SUSTAINABLE SALMON FISHERIES                                                                               
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) STOLTZE                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
03/12/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/12/07       (H)       FSH, RES                                                                                               
03/26/07       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/26/07       (H)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
03/28/07       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BILL STOLTZE                                                                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as prime sponsor of HB 189.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BEN MULLIGAN, Staff                                                                                                             
to Representative Bill Stoltze                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 189.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RICKY GEASE, Executive Director                                                                                                 
Kenai River Sportfishing Association                                                                                            
Kenai, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 189.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, Member                                                                                                        
Fairbanks Advisory Council                                                                                                      
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 189.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
LARRY INGLE, Fishery Biologist                                                                                                  
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 189.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
[Due  to  technical  difficulties,   the  initial  recording  was                                                               
stopped and restarted.  No loss of testimony resulted.]                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  PAUL   SEATON  called  the  House   Special  Committee  on                                                             
Fisheries  meeting  to  order at  8:41:00  AM.    Representatives                                                             
Seaton, Johnson, LeDoux,  and Edgmon were present at  the call to                                                               
order.   Representatives Wilson, Johansen, and  Holmes arrived as                                                               
the meeting was in progress.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HB 189-MGMT OF SUSTAINABLE SALMON FISHERIES                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:41:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced  that the only order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO.  189,  "An   Act  relating  to  the  policy  for                                                               
management of sustainable salmon fisheries."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:41:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BILL STOLTZE, Alaska  State Legislature, offered a                                                               
brief  background on  the adoption  of the  sustainable fisheries                                                               
policy, by  the Board of Fisheries  (BOF) in 2000.   This policy,                                                               
he  stated,  has  proved  to  garner major  support  as  well  as                                                               
opposition since its  inception.  He opined that  it is important                                                               
to maintain  sustainable fisheries in  this state, and  said that                                                               
his bias to  this measure stems from living at  the terminus of a                                                               
fishery.  He  expressed concern that the  terminus fishermen have                                                               
been  neglected, considering  the  emphasis that  is provided  to                                                               
other use groups.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  agreed that  sustainability  is  important to  the                                                               
salmon fisheries.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
8:46:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  asked how  this bill differs  from present                                                               
policy.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STOLTZE deferred to his staff member.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
8:46:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BEN MULLIGAN, Staff to Representative  Bill Stoltze, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, stated  that by  placing the  policy in  statute the                                                               
department is  held "a little  more accountable" than  the leeway                                                               
that is allowed by departmental regulation.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  inquired  what accountability  this  bill                                                               
would effect.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MULLIGAN  responded  that  a  blatant  infraction  could  be                                                               
challenged through statute  by a citizen.  It would  also allow a                                                               
constituent to appeal to their legislator for support.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
8:48:50 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHANSEN inquired  whether  the  policy has  been                                                               
amended since 2000.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MULLIGAN  stressed  the need  for  an  underlying  statutory                                                               
structure to the board policy and departmental regulation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STOLTZE  said that  putting statute forward  is in                                                               
response to public pressure  regarding sustainable fisheries from                                                               
regions across  the state.   The initiative method is  an option,                                                               
but, he opined,  not necessarily the best means.   He stated that                                                               
he respects the resource more than the user.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:51:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  inquired what effects this  law would have                                                               
had on  specific situations of the  last five years, had  it been                                                               
in place.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN stated  that that question cannot  be answered until                                                               
the law is enacted and applied.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked  what problem is needing  to be fixed                                                               
by implementing this bill.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MULLIGAN  provided  an  example  of  the  Upper  Cook  Inlet                                                               
escapement goals for  sockeye salmon, which have not  been met in                                                               
the  last four  out of  five years.   He  stressed that  the this                                                               
issue has not been appropriately addressed by the department.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:53:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON observed  that this  bill would  put into                                                               
statute current BOF policies.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN stated that the  core principals of the BOF policies                                                               
were   identified  to   come  under   statute,  upon   which  the                                                               
departmental regulation could then be based.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked  what impacts will the  bill have on                                                               
current regulation.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.   MULLIGAN   responded   that   regulations   would   require                                                               
modification and  adoption of  additional regulations.   However,                                                               
he said the policy is "already fleshed out in regulation."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:55:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  offered his understanding  of the impact  this bill                                                               
would have  on the example provided:   Given a weak  stock return                                                               
to  the far  reaches  of  the Upper  Cook  Inlet, citizens  could                                                               
legally challenge the lower fisheries,  possibly closing down all                                                               
commercial fishing, to allow for escapement goals.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN directed attention to page  2 section 3 of the bill,                                                               
and stated than an option could  be to develop an action plan for                                                               
stocks  of  concern  to  better understand  the  reason  for  the                                                               
depletion.    It  would  not  necessarily  require  an  immediate                                                               
shutdown  of a  fishery,  but  it may  create  "windows" or  time                                                               
restrictions on some fisheries.   Without taking these measures a                                                               
stock could be depleted further up the waterway.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
8:57:11 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON stressed  that what has been  described is currently                                                               
being  implemented, based  on the  board's existing  policy.   By                                                               
putting the  policy into statute,  he opined, the public  will be                                                               
allowed an additional layer of citizen "complaint, or override."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MULLIGAN  stated  that  it  would  allow  the  citizenry  an                                                               
opportunity to redress  the government.  He pointed  out that the                                                               
low  escapement in  the  Upper  Cook Inlet  has  been an  ongoing                                                               
issue;  however, getting  ADF&G to  recognize this  as a  concern                                                               
"took years."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
8:58:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHANSEN asked:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Is this new  ground ... [has] any policy by  the BOF or                                                                    
     Board of  Game, for management  of any fishery  or game                                                                    
     stock,  ... been  codified in  any other  place in  the                                                                    
     state?                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN  stated that  he could  provide that  information to                                                               
the committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
8:59:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON said  that the legislature has been  working to give                                                               
the  BOF  managerial flexibility.    Providing  some examples  of                                                               
those efforts, he suggested that  this bill appears to be counter                                                               
to that tact.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MULLIGAN assured the committee  that citizens have considered                                                               
pursuing  the petition  process.   Because these  issues are  not                                                               
being addressed  by the  board, the  constituents have  asked for                                                               
the possibility of addressing it at the statutory level.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON related  that this  may  effect the  commissioner's                                                               
ability to  act as  the designated  emergency order  authority to                                                               
manage in-season fisheries and asked  what consequences have been                                                               
considered in that regard.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MULLIGAN   agreed  to  provide   the  committee   with  that                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:03:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   WILSON  requested   more  in-depth   information                                                               
regarding how  this bill  may change  current practices  and thus                                                               
impact the entire state.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON reminded  the committee  that his  intention is  to                                                               
take  public  testimony,  and  hold the  bill  in  committee  for                                                               
further consideration.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:04:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON opened public testimony.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:04:36 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICKY  GEASE,   Executive  Director,  Kenai   River  Sportfishing                                                               
Association,  stated  that  the   sustainable  salmon  policy  is                                                               
"great"  for   Alaska,  given  the   goals  of:     insuring  the                                                               
conservation of  salmon and the required  marine aquatic habitat;                                                               
protection  of customary,  traditional, and  other fishery  uses;                                                               
and sustaining the health of  fishing communities.  Outlining the                                                               
policy he  stated that  it took  "a long time"  to get  this into                                                               
regulation.    He  reported  that there  have  been  board  level                                                               
discussions, involving the Department of  Law (DOL), of how other                                                               
policies  are  put into  regulation.    It  is incumbent  on  the                                                               
legislature to provide authority to the  BOF to have this type of                                                               
policy placed into regulation; the  current trout policy provides                                                               
a precedent  case.  He pointed  out that, at the  most recent BOF                                                               
meeting, discussion  indicated that  there are  other regulations                                                               
tied to  the sustainable  salmon fishery policy  as well.   These                                                               
discussions led to the legal  question of whether policies can be                                                               
put  into   regulation,  or  need   too  stand  alone   to  guide                                                               
regulations  established  by  the   board.    The  importance  of                                                               
"locking-in"  this  policy, he  said,  is  to qualify  commercial                                                               
fisheries as  certifiably sustainable  by the  Marine Stewardship                                                               
Council  (MSC),  for this  emerging  market.   The  diligence  of                                                               
regulating a  sustainable harvest vs. having  "an ignored" policy                                                               
is scrutinized  by the MSC.   He  emphasized the need  to provide                                                               
the BOF with  the "tools and security" that  this regulation will                                                               
stay in place, and that the legal ground is firm in this regard.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:08:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked Mr. Gease to clarify his position on HB 189.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. GEASE declined  to take a stance on the  bill but underscored                                                               
the need  for the legal question  to be answered.   Following the                                                               
satisfaction of the legal question  and depending on the outcome,                                                               
he recommended that the board's  authority to regulate the policy                                                               
be emphasized, or the issue be placed into statute.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:09:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
VIRGIL UMPHENOUR, Member Fairbanks  Advisory Council, stated that                                                               
he was  a BOF member who  worked on developing, and  placing into                                                               
regulation, the  sustainable salmon  policy.   The need  for this                                                               
policy  was  prompted  due  to  the  way  in  which  departmental                                                               
management  policies  were  being interpreted  in  the  different                                                               
regions  regarding management  and conservation  concerns.   Thus                                                               
the sustainable  policy was  developed over  a four  year period,                                                               
which included  public meetings and  committee input.   He opined                                                               
that this regulation should be  entered into statute, as a policy                                                               
can be ignored by the BOF.   He cited the Yukon River king salmon                                                               
concern of 2001, as an example  of how this can happen and result                                                               
in  the miss-management  of a  fishery.   From HB  189, page  two                                                               
(c)(3), he  read, "diversity shall  be maintained to  the maximum                                                               
extent  possible   at  the  genetic,  population,   species,  and                                                               
ecosystem  levels."   The genetics  of  the eight  year old  king                                                               
salmon are extinct in the  Yukon River today, because, he opined,                                                               
this  language  was  not  in  statute  to  afford  the  necessary                                                               
protection.   If this bill  passes, genetic diversity  would need                                                               
to be  managed, possibly  saving the Yukon  River seven  year old                                                               
king salmon from extinction.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:14:01 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX requested clarity  regarding the concept of                                                               
genetic diversity and the difference  between salmon aged at six,                                                               
seven, or eight years.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. UMPHENOUR explained  that the genetic make-up  is what brings                                                               
fish back to the spawning grounds  at different years of age.  To                                                               
a follow-up  question, he  said that  king salmon  return between                                                               
the ages  of three and eight.   He outlined the  spawning process                                                               
which leads  to the further  gene propagation leading to  the age                                                               
return of the offspring.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:15:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  stated his  concern  that  implementing this  bill                                                               
could result in a citizenry  closing of a fishery, and questioned                                                               
whether that would be beneficial from a BOF perspective.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  UMPHENOUR directed  attention to  the bill,  page 2  (d)(3),                                                               
which states that  an action plans shall be  developed for stocks                                                               
of  concern.   Further,  he  said,  these  types of  plans  would                                                               
include options for  a targeted fishery, and may be  as simple as                                                               
requiring  the  fishnet  web size  be  altered;  not  necessarily                                                               
closing a fishery.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  maintained his concern that  the language contained                                                               
in the bill may leave the state open to a law suit.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:18:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON observed  that, in  the example  provided,                                                               
every precaution could  be taken, and the Yukon  River eight year                                                               
salmon may still not improve in numbers.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  UMPHENOUR stressed  that recovery  is  based on  controlling                                                               
which fish  escape back to  the spawning ground, and  a plausible                                                               
good  fishing  practices plan  of  methods  and means,  could  be                                                               
devised to ensure proper escapement.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:19:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LARRY INGLE, Fishery Biologist, as  a three term past BOF member,                                                               
provided   incites  into   the   development   of  the   existing                                                               
subsistence  policy; reiterating  the thorough,  statewide review                                                               
that  resulted  in  the  policies  that  were  adopted  in  2000.                                                               
Following the policy adoption, regulations  were written to Title                                                               
V, of the ADF&G code; an  additional three year process.  Shortly                                                               
after adoption,  acclaim was received  at the federal  level with                                                               
an  award  from the  Western  Association  of Fish  and  Wildlife                                                               
Agencies.   He  opined  that  the most  important  aspect of  the                                                               
current policy  is that  it requires  both the  BOF and  ADF&G to                                                               
follow a  systematic process in  evaluating the health  of salmon                                                               
throughout the state;  he read the requirements of  the policy to                                                               
that respect.  It has been  his experience, as a board member and                                                               
retired biologist, that  the policy works well.   Until recently,                                                               
with the rise of concerns  by various stakeholders and threats of                                                               
legal  actions, it  has not  been important  to have  this policy                                                               
written in statute.  However,  he opined, given these attacks, it                                                               
would be  appropriate to place it  in statute, and not  leave the                                                               
policies fate entrusted to four BOF members.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:26:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON summarized his understanding  of the testimony to be                                                               
that  the  BOF should  not  be  able  to modify  management  plan                                                               
details, in  the future,  and the  legislature should  remove the                                                               
board's authority to address elements of these policies.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. INGLE stated  not at all.  The existing  policy in regulation                                                               
should be subject  to change and adjustment by the  BOF.  That is                                                               
the practice and  it works well.  However, if  the entire policy,                                                               
the  implementation, and  the  statewide  systematic approach  of                                                               
evaluating the  salmon stocks, was  in jeopardy of  retraction by                                                               
the BOF, then  he would support a statutory  approach to preserve                                                               
the policy.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:28:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON clarified  that this  bill would  take the  current                                                               
workable model out of the hands  of the BOF, removing the board's                                                               
flexibility of management.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:29:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced  that the bill would be taken  up again to                                                               
allow for further public testimony.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Special  Committee on  Fisheries  meeting was  adjourned at  9:30                                                               
a.m.                                                                                                                            

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